running for my mind

May 09, 2024

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Location:

slc,ut,

Member Since:

Jan 16, 2013

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Recover From Injury

Running Accomplishments:

5k - 17:26

1/2 Marathon - 1:19:13

Marathon - 2:54:14

Wasatch 100 - 23:20

 

Short-Term Running Goals:

Sub-1:20 half

Sub-2:50 full

50 miler

Personal:

james clissold
started running in 2012

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Hoka Challenger 2 (black/orange) Lifetime Miles: 204.80
Kinvara 5 (blue 4) Lifetime Miles: 239.40
Olympus 2.0 (grey) Lifetime Miles: 161.00
Hoka Bondi 4 Lifetime Miles: 318.65
Paradigm 2.0 (black) Lifetime Miles: 223.30
Kinvara 6 (white/orange) Lifetime Miles: 290.95
Kinvara 8 (black/green) Lifetime Miles: 226.73
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesTotal Distance
6.000.001.250.007.25

Headed to the West High track to mostly keep Josh company on his workout. I had planned on 6-7 miles with some strides for today, but thought I could just jump in periodically with Josh on his 400s and get what I was looking for. Ended up doing 2 x 400 and 6 x 200 with some other strides tossed in here and there. It was nice to have Adam and Josh at the track. Josh pushed through a tough workout with lots of factors weighing in favor of cutting it short. 

Aside from running -- Now that I am no longer in school, I have been able to read more of what I actually want and not just text books. It has made me think about the process of obtaining knowledge and what is knowledge in general. My friend said something interesting yesterday when I was chatting with him about it that I figured some might find interesting. Below is his comment.

It is my belief that all knowledge comes from experience. The best way I have thought about explaining this idea is to describe knowledge like a tree. Each branch represents a different kind of knowledge acquisition based on a certain type of experience: the religion branch, the gender branch, the spiritual branch, the parent branch, etc. Each separate branch is unique because the knowledge within each is acquired through a different type of experience.
 
I think you would agree that you get a very different set of knowledge when you become a parent. It is not scientific knowledge. It is not even religious knowledge.
 
In my observation, the world (particularly the scientific world) believes that all knowledge is obtained or can be obtained in the same way scientific knowledge is obtained. I think this is false. If I were to perform a scientific experiment and pick up one of your children and get a hug, I would acquire different knowledge than each of you would acquire. Science requires the same information/result from the experiment no matter who performs the experiment. 
 

Your parent experience/knowledge provides you with different knowledge than I could obtain through the scientific experiment. No matter how much scientific knowledge I obtain about your children, I would not know them or about them in the way that you do. (A wrinkle in this example is the practice of adoption, but that is for another day.)
 
There are all kinds of examples that illustrate the difficulty with claiming that all knowledge is obtained in the same manner as scientific knowledge. There is knowledge that we have as men that our wives do not have. The same is equally as true. We will never understand them, at least not in this life. No matter how many science experiments we conduct, we would not acquire the same type of “gender” knowledge our wives have.
 
I think the same thing happens in spiritual or religious matters. In church, we talk about seeing things with “spiritual eyes.” I think that spiritual experience is the path to spiritual knowledge. The same would be true of other types of knowledge and experience: gender/religious/parent experience leads to gender/religious/parent knowledge. I do not believe we obtain these types of knowledge through scientific experiments.
 
Sorry that was so long. Obviously, feel free to comment. Or, just ponder. I am still processing what he said.
 

Brooks PureFlow 3 (boston) Miles: 7.25
Comments
From ACorn on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 09:22:18 from 71.213.41.74

Interesting comment. First thing that comes to mind is that there are correct, specific answers when dealing with science and its various branches like math. There's only one way to arrive at the right solution especially when things get more complex.

With parenting, religion or gender, just to use the example, there doesn't seem to be a definitive solution. I decide what works best for me in these areas and adapt. Your experience in these areas will not be mine or the same as anyone else. So, differing experience will lead to different "knowledge" and solutions in these areas.

I will revisit this and ponder during the day, maybe a good discussion for tomorrow's run.

From Josh E on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 14:36:09 from 205.235.104.4

I like that Adam put "knowledge" in quotation marks because what is really being espoused here is lack of knowledge. There are certain things that aren't known but perceived or understood and can not be proven with empircal evidence.

Thus, the conclusions made by different folks vary and can only be reinforced with the anecdotal evidence of the perceiver.

Does he think that some conclusions are superior to others in these realms and why? For example, would he then say that an honest thirst for spiritual knowledge can lead to only one conclusion or does he embrace the diversity of "knowledge" on this subject?

From james (runmehappy) on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 15:05:06 from 50.203.76.218

Yes, he believes that an "honest thirst for spiritual knowledge" leads to only one conclusion. However, if he takes this stance, it seems that he would be contradicting everything that he claims above.

From Josh E on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 15:11:46 from 205.235.104.4

That's certainly the way I read it!

From james (runmehappy) on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 15:27:47 from 50.203.76.218

Ok, let's suppose that an honest thirst leads to only one conclusion. Could you reconcile the problem with this argument by stating there is a finite amount of knowledge or a limit to the length of each branch of the tree?

If this is the case, an honest thirst would lead to full "spiritual knowledge" and thus one conclusion. Our different experiences on the other branches are each a reflection of partial knowledge on those subjects and thus can vary by experience.

From Josh E on Tue, Jun 03, 2014 at 16:47:43 from 205.235.104.4

I suppose if there is a tree of knowledge that exists as an absolute, what he is saying is that certain things can be known through empirical data and logic and other things we can't fully know because there is no way to gain a fullness of knowledge from our limited vantage point.

Thus you propose that perhaps our trees are subsets of this tree with nonexistent, rotten or twisted branches and some that only go so far. I understand that, but I disagree.

Like I said in Allie's comment board earlier this year, I don't know what value there is in having absolute answers to raising children. Your friend seems to on the one hand appreciate and respect the the diversity of experiences each parent has but on the other hand, if absolute knowledge is required, then the conclusions reached by many are inferior or wrong altogether. Twisted or rotten branches.

Same for spirituality. The spiritual experiences of billions are cast aside because they missed finding the one correct answer due to a lack of faith or opportunity (go ye into all the world). Their branch is rotten, twisted or missing even though they may have done much soul searching and considered it in great depth.

I have not found it helpful to approach issues with the "I'm right, you're wrong" mentality. I have found I prefer the "let's get through this together" mentality.

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